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The Apocalypse

Posted by Dominic T. on 1998/02/06 18:10

This is a reply to a private message that I've decided to make public, to stir
up a bit more discussion (maybe).

I can see the apocalypse in your IFIS contributions this afternoon, but why?

Oh, I dunno.
It just sometimes gets to me.

You see, as a non-christian, I take it all a bit harder than most folk.
'Cause most people think "Ah well, if the end of the world does happen, we'll
all just go to heaven that little bit sooner".

Now modern christianity may not have the raving warmongering tendencies of its
past, or of some other contemporary religions, but I suspect it encourages a
certain apathetic attitude towards the continuation of the species. After all,
if it's all God's plan, how can it be a bad thing? Soon we'll die, and
everything will be lovely.

Now as an atheist, this really bugs me. I'm thinking "Wake up you stupid
bastards - we're destroying humanity" but no-one really seems to care.

And even though I DO care, I'm not doing anything about it either. Does this
make me a hypocrite, or just an apathetic wanker? Just because I recycle
newspapers and tin cans, do I really think this is enough?

Sometimes the futility of existance becomes a bit much, but I prefer it to the
alternatives.

And certainly if *I* was Saddam, I'd be pointing missiles full of anthrax just
upwind of the US fleet, and sending lots of people with full suitcases to
cities such as New York, Washington, Paris, and London.

So have a nice weekend, while you still can.

And the next time someone smiles and says "God Loves You", remember it's people
like that who are responsible for the pear-shape this planet is in right now.

But the reason I posted to the IFIS list, rather than to alt.manic.depressive
was to get you to muse on the way religion affects the progress of
civilisation. There are a few books that have speculated on the effects of
discovering radically different religions, but I can't think of very many.

So given my assertion that Christianity encourages a short-sightedness to the
survival of the species, what are the alternatives?

Dominic.

"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try
the one I've never tried before." [Mae West]

The Apocalypse

Posted by David C. on 1998/02/08 22:25

Previously, Dom Thomas wrote...

You see, as a non-christian, I take it all a bit harder than most
folk.
'Cause most people think "Ah well, if the end of the world does
happen, we'll
all just go to heaven that little bit sooner".

That sounds like something out of Hale & Pace's send-up of Summer
Holiday - confronted with a huge angry thug in a bar, "Cliff Richard"
says "Remember - Jesus Loves You!"... and the thug's heart melts and
they all become friends!

Now modern christianity may not have the raving warmongering
tendencies of its
past, or of some other contemporary religions...

Except certain factions in N.Ireland, sadly...

...but I suspect it encourages a certain apathetic attitude
towards the continuation of the species. After all,

if it's all God's plan, how can it be a bad thing? Soon we'll die, and

everything will be lovely.

I hope not! Some people misinterpret it as that. I think it's more a
case of comforting them that at least there's a point to living. But I
don't believe that death is always "part of God's plan"... but more of
that later.

Now as an atheist, this really bugs me. I'm thinking "Wake up you
stupid
bastards - we're destroying humanity" but no-one really seems to care.

And even though I DO care, I'm not doing anything about it either.
Does this
make me a hypocrite, or just an apathetic wanker? Just because I
recycle
newspapers and tin cans, do I really think this is enough?

I too recycle, when the people in my house will let me! Luke will
probably come out with something like "Oh, why do you bother?!", Richard
is hell-bent on destroying the Earth such that it may be remade in his
image, and Tom...? Well, he throws cans in the bin instead of my
recycling bag. (Er, the names have been changed to protect the
innocent! Honestly!!! Is that okay, Lu... er, Tristram?)

But it's the same problem the Doctor has in "Killing Ground" (just to
bring this back to a sci-fi content) - locked up in Population Control,
he's been talking to a nearby inmate who knows he is soon to be
converted into a Cyberman; when our hero escapes, he goes to release the
kid, but then... wonders whether it's worth it, as 499 other young men
(Cybermen haven't eliminated sexism!) will still be converted!

Basically, I see life as doing whatever you can to make things better;
success isn't as important as the struggle. After all, the alternative
is to just sit back and wait for the Apocalypse.

Sometimes the futility of existance becomes a bit much, but I prefer
it to the
alternatives.

See, he agrees with me! ;-))) (triple chin)

And certainly if *I* was Saddam, I'd be pointing missiles full of
anthrax just
upwind of the US fleet, and sending lots of people with full suitcases
to
cities such as New York, Washington, Paris, and London.

So have a nice weekend, while you still can.

And the next time someone smiles and says "God Loves You", remember
it's people
like that who are responsible for the pear-shape this planet is in
right now.

Whoa there, pardner! They may not be helping, but the real problem are
the people who just want to laze around doing nothing, or who see
helping others as a pointless waste of time that could be better spent
bolstering their own egoes (like the average Dr.Who baddie).

But the reason I posted to the IFIS list, rather than to
alt.manic.depressive
was to get you to muse on the way religion affects the progress of
civilisation. There are a few books that have speculated on the
effects of
discovering radically different religions, but I can't think of very
many.

So given my assertion that Christianity encourages a short-sightedness
to the
survival of the species, what are the alternatives?

Well, as Rev.Lovejoy once said when the Simpson kids asked him for the
address of Rabbi Krustovsky (Krusty the Clown's dad): "Christianity is
changing to meet the needs of today's youth!!!" I'd like to think that
was true. One thing we need is for Roman Catholicism to stop
encouraging large families (for reasons discussed in my previous posting
- hey, I've been away all weekend, so I'm doing them all at once,
okay?). And for them and Protestants to stop bickering.

The alternatives? Well, I'd like to start up my own religion which
teaches that God and Satan are just our embodiements of the Universal
forces of creation and destruction, of good and evil if you will; never
mind what Christians say, it's not God who causes plane crashes at all!
It's just Satan getting the upper hoof for a moment. And, as I've said,
the meaning of life is the struggle, not the success (but maybe
Christianity teaches that - I'm agnostic!).

That will be all for now; the Vicar is now passing around the collection
plate - please give generously to our cause, so that we may be extremely
rich while you all live in poverty. :-O

Dave

P.S. I really am sorry, Luke! Er... for not mentioning you anywhere in
this E-mail whatsoever!

The Apocalypse

Posted by Simon Richardson on 1998/02/09 11:29

In article <828BE249D@>, "Dominic Thomas" <dthomas@> wrote:

This is a reply to a private message that I've decided to make public, to
stir up a bit more discussion (maybe).

This is the second time this has been done to me this week. Now on neither
occasion do I really mind, but neither person asked me. This is considered
in general to be really bad form, so please don't do it.

I can see the apocalypse in your IFIS contributions this afternoon, but
why?

Oh, I dunno.
It just sometimes gets to me.

You see, as a non-christian, I take it all a bit harder than most folk.
'Cause most people think "Ah well, if the end of the world does happen,
we'll all just go to heaven that little bit sooner".

Now modern christianity may not have the raving warmongering tendencies of
its past, or of some other contemporary religions, but I suspect it
encourages a certain apathetic attitude towards the continuation of the
species. After all, if it's all God's plan, how can it be a bad thing?
Soon we'll die, and everything will be lovely.

Now as an atheist, this really bugs me. I'm thinking "Wake up you stupid
bastards - we're destroying humanity" but no-one really seems to care.

Perhaps this is because you are thinking it, not saying it.

I don't perceive the Christians as doing that much either way - and given
the alternatives that are put forward under the "deep Green" agenda I'm
really not sure that bothers me.

Most Green solutions (and most apocalypse SF) seems to focus on the idea
that the world's population will carry on going up, and that the
quality-of-life will carry on going down. Green legislation seems to focus
on forcing (other) people to lose quality-of-life early on, rather than
later.

I prefer to believe that it would be possible to reduce human population
sanely, and in a way that involved minimum suffering. To me that means
lowering the birth-rate, not increasing the death-rate. This seems to be
happening in Western countries, and I would be entirely happy with it if it
wasn't for the worrying observation that the only ones breeding at
greater-than-replacement-level seem to be the ones on Welfare. Is the
ability to live off ones neighbours labours pro-survival? And do we want
that?

The other alternative is the "high-technology" methods advocated by SF
writers like the breathtakingly-right-wing Jerry Pournelle - mainly centring
around using space technology to move heavy industry to the Moon, or the
Asteroids, and turn Earth into a garden. I like the idea - but I believe
too strongly in the Ultimate Power of Human Stupidity to be convinced we
will ever do it.

And even though I DO care, I'm not doing anything about it either. Does
this make me a hypocrite, or just an apathetic wanker? Just because I
recycle newspapers and tin cans, do I really think this is enough?

Sometimes the futility of existance becomes a bit much, but I prefer it to
the alternatives.

You'll get to try the alternative in a few years. So will the rest of us.

[...]

So given my assertion that Christianity encourages a short-sightedness to
the survival of the species, what are the alternatives?

A religion that accepts the work of science, rather than tries to deny it?

Simon

---
"This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind" -Ecclesiastes 4:16

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